Talk:Spanish/OASOs comments

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I just checked the lessons and I have a couple of suggestions, tips, comments, and whatnot, well, a lot of them. I hope they to help you to improve the quality of this wikibook and your knowledge of the Spanish language. Here they are:

Introduction:

DONE "requirement" is misspelled. It has G instead of Q.
DONE (at least started: Pronouncing Spanish words --Karl Wick) Before the currently available lessons, I think the reader should receive an introduction of the Spanish phonetics and pronunciation (there's a lot to be explained here: the right pronunciation of the consonants G, H, J, L, LL, Q, R, RR, Ñ), as well as the Spanish alphabet and writing system, and of course, the use of the accent.
After a few lessons there should be another lesson about the syllabic separation of the words, as it's very important for the correct spelling and pronunciation. Until this lesson, every polisyllabic word in Spanish that doesn't have accent should be written like "esto está en español" to let the reader know where to stress the word.
After some more lessons, or as an appendix, there could be a section where the reader becomes a listener and hears the different accents of Spanish in the world: The Spanish, The Mexican, The Argentinian, etc.
I notice that only lesson 1 has dialogs. Why? The other lessons should have dialogs too. Everybody loves them! Now, seriously, I think dialogs are at least as useful as all the grammatic descriptions, as they put everything in practice.
A spanish translation of ALL the english text could be an interesting thing to do, but it might make the pages too overloaded.
Also I see some mix of Spanish-styled Spanish and American-styled Spanish. This is noticeable in the use of the second person pronouns. I propose to define a standard, so the book looks more homogeneous. If I'm not wrong, here are three main Spanish styles: The Mexican-like (tú, ustedes), the Argentinian-like (vos, ustedes), and the Spanish-like (tú, vosotros). I propose the Mexican-like one, as it's probably the most used (from the USA Latino communities to somewhere by Bolivia, I think). This is only for the dialogs and the examples. The verb conjugation for all styles should be described, even if that means a headache for the reader. An alternative could be to include all the examples in the three styles, so European people can get used to the Spanish Spanish, and Argentinian don't feel despised.

Lesson 1:

DONE I'm not sure about the name Gonzales. In Spanish there is freedom when it comes to names, and there's probably some people called Gonzales, and I'm doubtful about the correctness of the word. I think a better word is González, which is also the name of a place in México.
DONE I'm more sure about this one: The last name Pérez has accent in the first E.
DONE I think it's a good idea to give also literal translations, so the reader knows what is he/she really saying. For example, the expression Encantado actually means (I'm) Charmed, and Me llamo... means I'm called....
In the personal pronouns section, you could add the pronoun vos. It's for the 2 person singular, and it's used in 2 ways:
- the informal one: It's used a lot in Argentina, Chile, etc. I think it's used much more than tú or usted there. The conjugation is the same as with vosotros but removing the I before the last S, and, if it has more than one syllable, add an accent to the last vowel. Example: "Who are you" -> ¿Quién sos vos? This pronoun is also used a lot here in Guatemala, but it's used only among boys, young men, and between them and their close relatives (a boy and his mother, etc.). It's almost never used by girls, or when a boy talks to a girl, unless she's his sister or if they're really, really close (grew together, etc.). I use it with my mother, father and sisters, but not with my grandparents. It's not used in Spain.
- The formal one: The conjugation is exactly the same as vosotros. Example: "Who are you?" -> ¿Quién sois vos?, with "I". This one is never used in America, unless someone's doing a play of old, old times, and it probably sounds as old as "thou" and "thee" sound at least in American English. I don't know about its usage in Spain.
DONE Also in the personal pronouns section: You could explain about the difference between the article el and the pronoun él, so readers don't confuse the two words.
One more thing: ustedes is probably formal only in Spain. The pronouns vosotros(as) aren't used at all here in Guatemala, and very probably, in all of America.
DONE In the grammar section, the verb to be translates to 3 different verbs(!): "ser", "estar", "haber". The last one is used where in English you say there is/are, in Spanish you say "hay". Example: There's a fly in my soup! -> ¡Hay una mosca en mi sopa!.

Lesson 2:

Gender of nouns: I think it's a good idea to explain that genders belong to the nouns, not to the objects. A common mistake is that people think that because a noun has a masculine article, the object denoted by the noun has some kind of masculine properties, which is false, of course. Then they don't get why both el camino and la vereda mean "the way" and have different articles.
Also I see the word "caballo" in the examples, but the pronunciation guide is after the lessons in the index, and it doesn't mention that LL in Spanish sounds similar to the consonant Y in English. I've heard more than one people from the USA pronouncing llama (flame) as lah mah where it should be more like yah mah.
The definite article: please don't forget the article "lo", which is used to "convert" adjectives into nouns.
DONE The indefinite article: the title has a wrong formating. It has 3 "=" before and 4 after it, so it can't be wikified.
In the examples, Son unos boletos caros: In the real world one usually omits the word unos, however, it's fine as an example.
Nationalities: The nationalities are both, adjectives and nouns. So in the examples, el hombre mexicano = el mexicano, etc. However, when using a nationality as noun, you only mean people, not animals or objects. Also often when people say el hombre mexicano or any other nationality, they mean all the people of the country.
DONE Also, in Spanish the word americano means from the continent of America, not the USA. This is because in Spanish USA is abbreviated as Estados Unidos (United States), so the nationality is estadounidense, and it applies to masculine and feminine nouns without changing: el hombre estadounidense, la mujer estadounidense.

Vocabulary-Colors: the adjective naranja, gris, marrón, púrpura, verde also don't change when describing a noun (anaranjado and morado do). I think that it can be explained in the section "Grammar III - Matching Adjectives". Also la naranja means "the orange" and la mora means "the blackberry", so literally anaranjado = "orange-like" and morado = "blackberry like".

Lesson 3:

¿Qué hacéis por la noche? sounds like a Spanish speaker. An American speaker would say: ¿Qué hacen por la noche?, or since he's talking about the future, ¿Qué harán por la noche? for American, and ¿Qué haréis por la noche? for Spanish.
DONE Mañana practico el tenis. - The article el is usually dropped in this case, just like in English.
In the vocabulary, the article is missing in the English part, la noche means the night, not just night alone. Same goes for next lessons.
The verb hacer and the weather: the verb haber can be used the same way (hace buen tiempo = hay buen tiempo). The expression Hace fresco doesn't sound right. This is because the words tiempo, frío, calor, sol, viento are nouns, but fresco is an adjetive that means "at a lower temperature than usual". It's also a noun in America (el fresco or el refresco), but then it means "a cold drink". The phrases literally mean "It's making..." or It makes and are similar to when one says "It's raining" (nobody rains, or "makes the wind", but it's only an expression).

Lesson 4:

DONE seguir also means "to continue". volver also means "to turn".

Lesson 5:

Tú eres de México. -> Eres de México. It's unusual to mention the pronoun here, as eres implies tú.
¿Eres tú de México? -> ¿Eres de México? It's even more unusual here.
¿Cómo...? = How...?; ¿Qué...?' = What...? This explains ¿Por qué...?: For what (reason)...?
¿Cómo te llamas? can also mean "How are you called?"
Alberto estudia tanto como Felicitas. - ¿Felicitas? Now that's a really, really weird name!
Superlatives: Spanish uses el X más Y for "the most Y X" and el X menos Y for "the least Y X", not only más and menos. más literally means "more", and menos means "less".
Plutón es el planeta menos grande del sistema solar literally means "Pluto is the least big planet in the solar system".
In Guatemala, el colegio and el instituto both mean "school" (primary or secondary). The difference is that mostly all the colegios are private and institutos are public, even though is possible nowadays to find institutos privados, that is "private schools".
la mar is often used in poems, but in a conversation, el mar is used.
pesado sounds like a localism. The international meaning of the word is heavy.
I don't know if the adjectives that describe persons with learning difficulties are constructive in this book (estúpido [stupid], tonto [dumb]).

Lesson 6

I think it will be necessary to remember here that even though the word me in Spanish is written just like "me" in English, and both mean the same, they sound very different.
The tables of pronouns should have the pronouns in Spanish, at least to disambiguate the pronouns "you".
The example Te compro una bicicleta, te la compro. is, in particular, somewhat ambiguous. It can mean I buy you a bike, I buy it for you but it can also mean I buy it to/from you.
el desayuno literally means "to put an end to the fast (and start eating)". It comes from the noun el ayuno, that means "the fast" (not to eat).
DONE comer means internationally to eat.
DONE Another word for "banana" is el banano.
It may be time to remember the correct pronunciation of the word zanahoria too.

Lesson 7

There are a lot of words in Spanish that are very similar to their English counterparts. By including them in the vocabulary list, it will be easier to the reader to learn more words. So...
There's another word for "the closet" and it is... el closet! :)
Another word for "the refrigerator" is el refrigerador.
el plato also means "the dish", so lavaplatos = lavar (to wash) + plato (dish).
That's right, sartén is feminine. Some other tricky words are el agua (the water) and el arma (the weapon).

Lesson 8

Here's the command conjugation for the formal (Spanish Spanish) vos pronoun, as well as for vosotros and vosotras:
- hablar: hablad
- comer: comed
- pedir: pedid
- dar: dad
- estar: estad
- ir: id
- saber: sabed
- ser: sed (not to be mistaken with sed (thirst))
And for the informal (American Spanish) vos pronoun; it's similar to the Spanish Spanish form, but you drop the last "D" and put an accent in the last vocal. Remember that this is only for America:
- hablar: hablá
- comer: comé
- pedir: pedí
- decir: decí
- hacer: hacé
- ir: (Does not exist as far as I know, or is not used (What could it be?í?). The verb used is andar (to go, walk, to ride, to function [a machine]), and conjugates andá)
- poner: poné
- salir: salí
- ser: sé
- tener: tené
- venir: vení
Now some corrections:
- decir, negative: no digas
- hacer, negative: no hagas
- poner, negative: no pongas
- salir, negative: no salgas
- ser, negative: no seas
- tener, negative: no tengas
- venir, negative: no vengas
In the medical attention: "the doctor" = el doctor.
The end of the vocabulary can be:
- el pie = the foot
- los pies = the feet
- el dedo = the finger
- los dedos = the fingers
- los dedos de los pies = the toes
so the reader makes the asociation :).

Lesson 9

It's better if you include:
- la radio = the radio station
- el radio = the radio receiver/the radius (geometry, chemistry)

Wow OASO! Thanks a lot for the huge amount of suggestions - I guess it will take me a while to go through all this :), but once it is all included the Wikibook will definitely be of a much higher quality. Again, feel free and encouraged to make changes right away this is more efficient (but I am very glad for your writeup here since I'll be able to learn a lot from it). Thanks! Thomas Strohmann

el desayuno literally means "to put an end to the fast (and start eating)". It comes from the noun el ayuno, that means "the fast" (not to eat).

I though the english word breakfast had exaclty the same etymology, so to have breakfast would mean to break the fast. All the other comments are great, when I have some time i'll try to make the corrections listed here that are not yet done. 200.89.153.204 6 July 2005 13:46 (UTC)

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